Battle Review: Chaos vs Orks

Thor and KamuiLast night I got to play Kamui and his Orks with Imperial Guard allies. I of course had my Chaos Marines. This would be my first real match-up against an infantry heavy list and I knew I had my work cut out for me.

Kamui’s list at its core featured a bunch of units of Boyz backed by Boomwagons, Lootas and small Imperial Guard squads packing lascannons. My list featured Nurgle Spawn and Bikers as the spearhead along with a Maulerfiend while supported by some CSM squads and Cultists lead by Huron. Oh, and some Havocs and Oblits.

The game…it was brutal. Long story short I wanted to hammer down a flank that would keep me relatively hidden from his long-range fire support, and so I tried, but I had some bad rolls (honestly not blaming the dice on this though) that cost me a few crucial charges and some bad luck opening Trukks of all things. Yeah, those AV10 open-topped vehicles are tough! Ultimately what ended up happening as a result was I was hitting him in pieces and crumbling.

By the end of the game on turn #5 I had 3 models left, 2 Oblits and 1 Havoc. However, I managed to pull a draw on the primary (objectives – I shot him off it last turn and got the lone Havoc in contest range), we drew secondary (get into the enemy deployment zone), and, I’m just now realizing Kamui, I won the tertiary of having your Warlord kill more models than your opponent. For the bonus points Kamui took 2pts there and me none. So, I actually won this 18 – 15…with 3 models left, shit. Last night we completely forgot about the tertiary and thought Kamui had won by 2pts.

Regardless though, I got my ass thoroughly handed to me. I managed to take out a few Trukks, a Boomwagon, and three squads of Boyz, which is a small dent in the list he brought. I think my strategy was pretty sound, and dice rolls weren’t doing me any favors, but ultimately I’m realizing I need to refine my list to be capable of taking on an infantry heavy list like this. My list is geared for speed and has some ranged support for opening transports to let my faster units get into combat. I’m relying on combat to take care of infantry and as I last night pointed out, that’s not going to work against everyone. So, time to tweak the list to round it out some.

Unit/model performance wise, the Maulerfiend had one of his best games yet. He took out a squad of Boyz on his own and aided my Spawn in mauling another mob. He lived longer than is usual but Kamui had two terrible rounds of shooting at him which helped a lot. Having the magma cutters on him let him splat a Nob as well, so I’m continuing to like how those work out.

Spawn did good as well. They were a unit with a failed charge I needed early game but the one they did make took down 12 Boyz. In that same combat the Maulerfiend took out 4 and the unit was then run down. As usual, they took a lot of fire and eventually disappeared. Had I been a bit more aggressive with the unit I think I’d have done better.

My Bikers got a raw deal this game. They, along with the Spawn, were spearheading into the center while I tried to pincer on the left flank with other units. The charge the Spawn failed was to aid the Bikers and that left my Bikers against 20′ish Boyz. Over the next two combat phases those Bikers got buried and the last one ran away to never rally.

Opposite of my Spawn, I need to be a bit less aggressive with this unit. I need to use them as intended, firing melta to crack open transports and assault smaller squads. If I’m going to get aggressive with them then I need to let the Spawn lead them.

Huron did well but wasn’t a game changer in this one. My infiltration let me get closer but it didn’t account for much with two failed charges by the Cultists he was leading. The random psychic powers are…random. I got fiery shield once (4+ cover from shooting), which aided the Cultists a ton but the rest of the game his powers didn’t effect much of anything. Huron did take out a mob of Boyz, pretty well on his own, but that was about it. That being said, that was what did win me that tertiary and in turn the game so I’ll take it.

All in all a good game. I may have won but I assure you it didn’t feel like it. I gained some valuable lessons though and found a weakness I need to shore up so it’s all good.

  • http://www.creativetwilight.com/ Kamui

    I should have snaked a tail from that large shoota mob back to my objective to hold it while still allowing most of them to shoot at your havocs, then moved the small shoota mob over a few inches to hold the one we were fighting for. Then I would have held one even if you contested the other.
    I had also planned to push that last trukk into your deployment zone. I had around 14 inches to cover and the ability to move 24, but I just completely forgot.

    Had I done just one of those two things I would have won the game. Even though your army was beat to paste you just out played me for the win. It was a good game.

    • http://creativetwilight.com/ Thor

      I wouldn’t go so far as to say I outplayed you. I would say between you forgetting your Trukk, and me having some last minute shit luck, is the reason why I won :P

      I’ve decided to swap my Havocs from autocannons to missiles so I can throw down some frags and of course have vehicle duty if needed too. It’s an easy way to work in some horde control for cheap. Also considering tossing a flamer, maybe two, on one of the CSM squads.

      • Lukas

        No! Fight fire with fire.
        A huge strong point of CSM is their ability to do powet blobs.
        20an CSM unit, MoK, sword and pistol. 15 point models with rage and counter attack. Throw huron in their for fearless awesomeness.
        Infiltrate D3 units
        First being this blob. If you only get one place them relatively defensive. Out of rapid fire but close enough that they’ll hit lines in the next turn or two.
        Zoom your fast elements forward and just crash into your opponent.

        • TheRhino

          Yuor 20-man CSM blob still costs 300 points before updgrades, and they’re still no more survivable than a standard Marine with T4 and a 3+ armor save. There are simply too many things that can carve through the entire unit without breaking a sweat. A single Furioso Dread can spin through the whole unit without taking a scratch in return unless you have a powerfist (and have cranked up the cost of the unit by 25 points).
          That 20-strong unit can also only charge a single unit and actually be effective (you lose Rage attacks altogether for a Disordered Charge), meaning you’re throwing a huge brick of points and bodies into much smaller, weaker units. That typically results in enemy units being wiped out, and your power blob’s ass hanging in the wind for retaliatory shooting in the enemy turn (nicely bunched for flamer and blast weapons, as well).
          You also have to remember that since all of the models have the same Initiative value, it’s going to be tough to get them all engaged in melee. You only get one Pile In step for all those models, so they’ll end up blocking one another out of the fight. Why take 20 when only 12 fight?
          Infiltrate is of limited use to this huge power blob, as well. You still have to be >18″ from an enemy unit if ANY enemyunit can draw LOS to your blob, which is going to be real tough to avoid with 20 models. At that >18″ distance, you cannot pull off a first turn charge (both because you infiltrated, and because you cannot physically move enough in a turn to do so).
          Also consider the effect of terrain on a unit like this. At 20 strong, it will take a unit like this several turns to get through large terrain features like hills, rivers, or ruined walls. Every turn you spend moving through Difficult Terrain is a turn you’re rolling Difficult Terrain in order to charge (which is a HUGE gamble when combined with Overwatch fire).
          20 Man blobs are simply too unwieldy and too expensive to be useful. They’re great for a thematic battle, or for tossing krak grenades into a Chimera parking lot, but not much else.

          • Lukas

            Take 20, cause then 12 will make it to.combat :P as you said. They’ll grt carved up. But with with that initial herd to push your enemy back it’ll allow you to completely Dominate the midfield. Furiouso dreads are a joke :P the WHOLE unit has krak grenades, it autowrecks. The only thing ut would even remotely struggle against is MCs, in which case you put.them in the wrong place :P

            And you aren’t even.obligated to infiltrate them. That’s the beauty of it all. The sheer versatility. Say you are up against nids. Now you infiltrate your oblits and start gunning down a MC.
            You can infiltrate whichever unit you need to. The 20 man power blob is just a great unit that vastly benefits from it in the right matchups

            • http://www.creativetwilight.com/ Kamui

              You can krak grenade MC’s as well, and many of them are below I4, so even there you’ve got a decent chance.

              As an ork player I can tell you that 20-man blobs aren’t that bad to move around. I agree with TheRhino that you need to be very careful about area terrain if you want to keep them mobile, and you have to be careful that they don’t block travel lanes for your other units. A 20-man blob with Khorne or Slaanesh (I5, plus the opportunity to take a feel-no-pain standard) or bolters and Nurgle would all have an effective level of utility on the field.

              They will, however, become an awkward lump of aggravation if they don’t fit the flow of the rest of your army so take some consideration before including.

            • TheRhino

              Furiosos are AV13. Kraks do nothing.

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