Battle Review: Disciples of Twilight vs Rebel Grots

Forge World Mars Unification WarsLast night I got to play against Kamui’s Rebel Grots (counts-as Imperial Guard), with my Disciples of Twilight (Chaos Marines). We’re both working out lists for the spring event, Fratris Salutem, and both experimenting. We played one of my missions, Battlefield Superiority, where the primary mission is table quarters, secondary is kill points and tertiary is objectives.

For me the big thing I was experimenting with was a Warpsmith (WIP model can be seen here), and Mutilators. I gave them a Land Raider in hopes of actually getting into combat before being shot to death. It sort of worked. Kamui had a Devil Dog and was able to nuke my Land Raider on the first turn. However, I had the top of the turn so I did make midfield before losing the ride. The Warpsmith and Mutilators went on to smash the Devil Dog in return and eventually the Mutilators died to mass fire.

The long and short of the game itself was that I rushed Kamui to pin him into his deployment zone; it was the old spearhead deployment. There were two choke points that I flooded early to trap him in. I took some serious early casualties doing so but eventually breached the choke points and dragged the Grots down in assault. His list was solid but with terrain and deployment he was in a tough spot from the get-go.

As for the rest of my experimenting, it went alright. Losing that Land Raider out the gate was upsetting but that was my mistake as well, putting myself in melta range. Ultimately the Mutilators did very little but they did absorb a ton of fire as I wasn’t rolling my typical 1’s for their armor saves for once. After they went down I moved back my Warpsmith to join the Obliterators. The Warpsmith managed to curse a Leman Russ before dying to volume of fire but that curse caused the Leman Russ to get hot and loss its final hull point. A fitting departing gift.

The shatter defenses worked out pretty well. I shattered a ruin that I figured Kamui would infiltrate his Ratlings into, and I was right, he did infiltrate in there. The shattered ruins helped me remove those Ratlings with fire and put a few glances on a Leman Russ sheltering behind the ruins. Ultimately not game changing but a nice little effect.

I’m pretty happy with how the Warpsmith played out. He wasn’t amazing in this game but his utility definitely helped me out and that’s the thing I have tried to find, a good utility HQ. The first HQ choice in that regard most think of is the Sorcerer and I like the Sorcerer but I have never had great luck with him. He tends to meet an early demise, can’t get off his powers, my opponent denies the witch…always something. I know others have great luck with him and maybe it’s just that he doesn’t fit my play style. The Warpsmith’s utility is easier to utilize. Shatter defenses is automatic. The machine curse is treated like a shooting attack and he’s BS5. Then factor in fixing vehicles, mechatendrils and that he’s decent at close combat and I have a utility character that fits my style more.

The Mutilators on the other hand, I’m still not sold on them. Most everyone writes these guys off without a second thought, much less play testing, but I prefer to make informed decisions. So far in my play testing I have had very little success with them. I think the only way they are going to work for me in my lists is by deep striking them aggressively and either letting them tear stuff up the next turn or draw a ton of fire to allow the rest of my army to advance. I have not written them off yet but I’m getting close.

  • khorneinquisitor

    I plan to try my mutilators my next game, now that I suspect I will be able to go to FS, with a mark of Slaanesh and a sorcerer or lord of slaanesh on mount. Either that or infiltrate. This way, they can outflank. With the mount, I have acute senses. I can move onto a side and have very little risk of getting nowhere near my enemy. Or I may try using a drop pod as a dreadclaw for a test game. Tat way I could drop in, fly up to the enemy, dump out and assault. No, it’s not AV 14, but AV 12 all around isn’t too shabby. Lastly, I have debated running Nurgle daemons with an icon to prevent scatter (Nurgle daemons don’t scatter near them). With this last method it would be a sure way to slam them down where I need them, and the way that the icons are worded, two MSU plaguebearers squads with icons (110 points each, so 220 for 20 shrouded models that can hurt anything). If I spend the extra 20 points to give them both instruments, I could use them to yank each other and the mutilators out of reserves, deep strike the first, place the next plaguebearer squad, then place the mutilators. This way, as long as I am within 18″ of my original target, for about 400 points and not absolutely terrible luck, you dump three squads of enemies on the enemies lap.

    Just some ideas for getting them into combat.

    • The icons are a shady area though. The use of Daemon icons refer to daemons of particular alignments. A Mutilator is a daemon but of no alignment. I suppose by RAW they would scatter 6″ since it’s not a daemon of whatever alignment (remember, a mark does not make them a daemon of whatever). Still, it seems sketchy. It also means instruments will not work to pull in Mutilators.

      Outflanking with a mount has potential and removes the risks with deep striking.

      • khorneinquisitor

        With a sorcerer of slaanesh on a mount, it gives him base 3 attacks at I5. With the ability to concuss and blind with the slaanesh powers, buff with slaanesh powers, and buff with biomancy, you could use the sorcerer to really make them nasty. Also, you could finally get your sorcerer in range with his psychic powers.

        However, if you ran them with Huron, you could outflank them with infiltrate as well. Either way, lots of deployment options. :P

      • khorneinquisitor

        Checked the rules and you’re right concerning the deepstrike. However,you would only scatter D6 as they are clearly a unit consisting of models with the daemon special rule. Same with the instruments. The instruments only need three things to work-
        – all models have daemon rule
        – still in deep strike reserve
        – has not rolled for reserves this turn.

        So you could very easily do this. A d6 scatter isn’t too bad really.

        The issue with a mount is that means that they are going to be slaanesh. Great, except that you get shredded by lascannons ├╝ber fast. Need to run them as black legion and make your slaaneshi lord or sorcerer eternal warrior or run biomancy on them to try to make the lord tougher or the unit eternal warrior.

        Hope to see these guys used more often, :)

  • In hindsight I probably shouldn’t have let you go first. My idea was to be able to react to your deployment then let you come into range to reduce the problems with night fight. I would probably have been better off putting up a strong front with the russes and devil dog and used their spotlights to help the rest of the army bring the pain. At least then when the devildog popped your raider and was subsequently assaulted by the mutilators within, your front line would still have been a good 12 inches farther away on turn two than they were, giving me a little more time to whittle them down.

    It was a good game though! I’m pretty happy with the list I used. I’ll probably tweak some of the load-outs a little but at least I don’t need a major overhaul!

    • Breaking out at least one of those units in a Chimera would have been good as well. Had you advanced those Russes with a Chimera behind it down that edge you were on then you could forced me to come chase you down instead of hammering you into the corner. You also could have relatively easily advanced the Vets towards where I put my Cultists. The Bikers were tied up, Cultists weren’t going to hurt a Chimera, leaving the only threat being the CSM on foot.

      Basically, spreading out and breaking rank would have helped. My list wasn’t particularly fast and chasing you around would have forced me into some tough choices. I once read an article on mass vs mobility that was good. In short if you’re army is more mass oriented than your opponent’s then play mass strategy (castle, play a game of attrition, etc). If your army is more mobility oriented than your opponent’s then play appropriately (redeployment, going after stragglers, etc). The key being in comparison to your opponent. Your list isn’t what you would look at and think of as a typical mobile list but compared to my list it was and that’s what counts. So, you played your army in that game as a mass army when it wasn’t.

      • I have to agree with you there. With three Chimera, 2 Leman Russ, 3 Armored Sentinels, and a Devil Dog I can mobilize three scoring units and quite a bit of firepower. I actually have a decently mobile force but I’m still getting the hang of it. I did a poor job of utilizing that strength in this game. I actually gave the CCS a chimera with the plan of loaning it to the Penal Battalion and completely forgot to do so.

        One thing the mutilators did well was draw focus. I held units back to pour fire on them when I should have used my mobility to minimize their impact. If I’d pulled the blob back a little and pushed everything else into other quarters I could have kept better distance from them while also pushing on your weaker flank.

        • JD Brink

          I don’t know what you’re using for Penal units, Kamui, but just reading that a bolt of lightning hit me: if they’re rebel grots, their prisoners could be anybody, not necessarily other grots. You could have human prisoners, kroot, tau, fantasy models, whatever. just need some kind of conversion to make them look like prisoners. maybe empire flagellants? love those models and always trying to find a reason to buy some. I also always thought if i made an IG force I’d use Catachan for penals and paint them in wife beater Tshirts and prison orange pants. :)

          • In my Rebel Grot / Fiend of Dakka (orks) fluff the Fiends hold an ex-Imperial Hive world (Dakka) that specialized in tanks and munitions for the IG while the Grots hold an agricultural world (the Goblin Moon) in the same system. They maintain an uneasy alliance that includes trade in equipment and slaves.

            I’m currently using Necromunda models for my penal battalion to represent gangers “recruited” from Dakka. I’ve been toying with the idea of replacing them with “Grot Juicers,” their combat drugs being the source of the Desperadoes rule. To be honest though, I’ll probably end up sticking with the gangers for a while because they work and I have a lot of other ideas I want to work on modelling!

            I like the idea of Catachans in prison orange, they would fit the bill nicely!

            • JD Brink

              Cool fluff, and I really like the ganger model idea! You’ve probably posted pictures of them, I’m just not regular enough to have seen them.

              • I don’t think I actually have posted pictures of them, except maybe as an army-wide shot. I painted them back in high school when I started playing Necromunda and I haven’t really done anything to them since. If I keep them in the army I’ll probably repaint them sooner or later and post pictures of them then.

  • JD Brink

    Clash of the Titans! It’s cool to see both forces “grow up” on here and than find out about their battle. :)

    • That’s a cool point of view! It’s too bad we didn’t really get any pictures :(

      • I hadn’t really thought of that either, it would be cool to post some picture heavy battle reports featuring the forces that have “grown up” on this blog. Maybe when I’ve finished painting a full force we can do that or a video.

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