Chaos Marines: Keeping Loyalists in Their Tanks Since 2007

Chaos Marines: NurgleHey all! Lukas here, your friendly neighborhood Necron!
Browsed through the new CSM book, beautiful stuff. Especially love the fluff, and some of the thematic lists you can make! 200 Zombies anyone? :D . What really impressed me though, was the combos you can pull off. I’ve always liked list synergy, and deep down we all have a soft spot for gimmicks. But when I saw this, I could taste the cheese.

First off, in general, how would you like to have a Mastery Level 3 Sorcerer, for 10 points more than your average Librarian? Thats right, 2 level advantage is only worth 10 points. However when you bump said Librarian to level 2 his upgrade costs 50 points. Yay! So that happened. To top it off, you have these lovely things we call psychic powers! Slaanesh seems a bit more well-rounded. The +1 Str for sonic weapons, which affects vehicles! Allowing you to stack onto a flier, not only lowering its effectiveness with shooting, but now making all your Noise Marines blast the bajesus out of it. Very strong unit comp, lots of DPT (damage per turn), and very flexible.

Secondly, they have a dragon.

And thirdly, and by far the single best thing I have seen yet. Is the ability to undeploy units. Good-ole Papa Nurgle allows us to do this. Spamming lvl 3 Nurgle Sorcerers we can get two gifts of contagion, and then roll and maybe get an enfeeble, or if you want this to be more reliable ally with something dumb, like IG and take the 70 points psykers who can trade in for two powers. Granting you another four rolls on bio for it. Then, roll psychic tests, and ask your opponent to remove their unit as a casualty.

You see, Page 3 of the BRB states:

“If at any point, a model’s Strength, Toughness or Wounds are reduced to 0, it is removed from play as a casualty.”

Gift of Contagion is a psychic power for Nurgle. 48″ Range malediction, that EXPLICITLY states that it stacks with itself. Cast it, get through joke deny the witch, and then roll d3, on a 1 they lose 1 attack, on a 2, they lose 1 strength, on a 3 they lose 1 toughness. So, with a single FOC you can wipe an entire 50 man blob of guardsmen, regardless of leadership, regardless of wounds, regardless of saves. REGARDLESS. You point at it, and as long as you at least roll the 2-3 result, you cast twice, and then enfeeble once. BAM. Squad gone. This combo becomes extremely stupid in double FOC. As you get FOUR lvl 3 psykers, all with gift. Allowing you to wipe things like, TERMINATORS, PALADINS, FLAMERS OF TZEENTCH, SCREAMERS. Or even, dare I say it, THUNDERWOLF CAVALRY. Remove them, from the game, as a casualty. No saves of any kind. Wounds do not matter, take that eternal warrior and shove it up your ass.

Undeploy target unit.

If you ever find yourself playing double FOC, and capable of doing this. I would suggest then allying with Daemons instead. That way Mr. Epidemius can tally how many models are in the undeployed unit. Yep.

Now you might be saying to yourself, “But Lukas! this combo is in no way reliable! I mean, you have to roll gift of contagion, and you have to cast it and get through their deny the witch!”

And I say to you sir, you can reliably get it on all four of your psykers, and at LD10 you can reliably cast it, and don’t kid yourself, deny the witch is a fluff thing. You see, the CSM psychic charts only contain 3 powers aside from the primaris. So you roll once, get either it, or one of the other two, and keep the result regardless. If you got it, GREAT, go roll on bio and hope for enfeeble, otherwise, roll Nurgle again because now you either get the ¬†power you want and are happy, roll the other power you don’t want, or the one you just got, giving you a re-roll. So you now have a 50/50 chance of getting it, after you had a 1/3 chance. Do math, cause I’m not. You have solid odds of rolling it. Especially with the average roll on a d6 being a 3.5 or something (I might be making that up). Honestly though, even if you don’t get it off, whats wrong with reducing the unit to a stupidly low strength or toughness? and then just finishing them off with crap units. Like Cultists/Zombies. Even when the combo doesn’t work, it works.

Either way, the combo is dumb as shit. Since you ignore EVERYTHING this game is based around, wounding, saving, hitting. You don’t actually do damage, you just undelpoy the unit. Like I said before as well, the combo works, or it wins. It sits on the line of really powerful utility, but has the potential to be a game-changing gimmick. Yay Chaos Marines!
Embrace the Plague.

  • abusepuppy

    You seem to be grossly overstating the chances of actually using Enfeeble/Contagion to actually work. You have to:
    Roll up multiples of both powers. Since you can take, at most, two
    Nurgle powers your chances are reasonable- but hardly guaranteed- there,
    but Enfeeble, even if you dedicate all three “slots” to it, is still
    just a coin toss.

    B. Pass your psychic test and have them fail their Deny roll. You’re looking at 1/6 chances for each of those things to happen.

    Actually roll up the -1T result (a one in three chance) on Contagion
    for a given turn. And an equal number of times you will actually buff
    the enemy by giving them Shrouded for free. Oops.

    So yes, under
    those incredibly rare circumstances you can kill a whole unit. But
    that’s not even reliable enough to be called a gimmick- it’s like
    banking on the one time your Fire Warrior will punch a Captain to death.

    with double-FoC your chances are… abysmally low. Actually cranking
    out the numbers on getting 3+ copies of Contagion/Enfeeble is quite
    complicated, but a rough number might be somewhere in the neighborhood
    of 15% in any given game. That is your _prerequisite_ for even being
    able to attempt this on a given game turn- and remember every spell has a
    outright 25% chance of not working (due to failing the test or being
    Denied) and then 66% of the time even when all THAT goes right you also
    will roll a crappy strength penalty spell instead of the one you want.

    line is: this is never going to work. It will magically come together
    something like once in twenty or forty games, but that’s it. Oh, and all
    of this assumes a big and valuable T3 target to aim the spells at and
    one with no psychic defenses. God forbid you have to try and kill some
    Marines with it or are staring down a general who doesn’t conveniently
    lump all of his models into fifty-strong units.

    Also, please
    don’t talk about math when you have no idea what you’re saying. There’s
    nothing wrong with admitting that statistics aren’t your thing-
    statistics are mostly boring and counterintuitive, so there’s no shame
    there. But when you say “the average die roll is 3.5 so you are probably
    going to get X on this d6 table,” it makes you sound really, really

    • JustHippie

      Perhaps you should reread the article and think a bit before replying so negatively. He doesn’t say “This is a guaranteed win” if that’s what you are looking for perhaps you are playing the wrong game.
      1- Article states it is situational
      2- Article states that even if unit is not removed it is a malediction that the rest of your army benefits from
      3-Pretty clear he is NOT trying to be a statistician here
      4- You miss the fact that S to 0 also is removed and a 2 or 3 on D3 gets that result
      5- what’s wrong with reducing a Paladin/Nob to T2 so your Bolters Instant kill them? Or just reducing them to T3 for that matter?

      He also doesn’t mention dealing with Nids or Eldar a MAJOR issue in 6th but not one you brought up at all. hmmmmm

    • stealthystealth

      Dude what the fuck is wrong with you. really really stupid. Seriously your an ass hat.

      • JustHippie

        That is EXACTLY what I wanted to say although I am biased toward Lukas. Glad to see the wrath of Stealthystealth in this case.

  • TheRhino

    So, it only works in double FOC? Non-factor. No one plays double FOC for exactly these reasons. Is this of any use against anything with a T greater than 3? I just don’t see it being useful. You can sacrifice a ton of slots to line up the potential for using this combo (two HQs from your Chaos Marines, 1 HQ from your IG Ally, and an Elite from IG, PLUS the mandatory 2 Troops from CSM and the one Troop from IG). You have so many small, weak units pointing themselves at a single 10-man squad. Unless you’re playing against someone who has no idea how this works, you won’t ever find an opponent brain-dead enough to deploy in a 50-man unit. Too complicated and convoluted to work, man.

    • Lukas

      Think about how many people are lining up behind their aegis defense lines right now. 90% of players. So even being able to wipe a squad of them per turn. The squad that is usually getting 2+ cover from going to ground, and auto rallying from whatever, or is being fearless.
      Again though, even when it DOESN’T work, you drop the strength or toughness of that stupid deadly unit and suddenly they are a thousand times easier to deal with.

      Reduce those assault termies to strength 2? so now they swing at i1 and strength 4, UHOH!

      The combo itself in a single FOC isn’t reliable. But right now it is countering everyone’s playstyle. Footslogging blobs. Only Turner is clinging to his chimeras :P

      • Lukas

        Also, just realized I contradicted myself. If they’re fearless they can’t go to ground. But you know what I mean haha

      • TheRhino

        I think you’re bottling it up too neatly in a vacuum. you can’t cast maledictions out of a transport, so your psykers must be vulnerable to return fire. There are a lot of ways to snipe characters out of units, or whittle the unit down and expose him.
        Is the combination a useful tool? Sure. It won’t single-handedly win you a game.

        • Lukas

          CSM have 20 man blobs of marines, IC’s have 2+ LOS, and he is T5 anyway due to MoN :P . And single-handedly it certainly won’t. Unless you are playing double FOC (which is why it shouldn’t exist). But either way it certainly helps out a lot

  • Khorne Inquisitor

    I have gone over this combo in my head. It would be frickin hilarious to pull off and really….that’s the kind of story we remember.

    However, a big part of the Nurgle combo is to do something similar to what hippie said. Drop that toughness so that a) you get rerolls with poison and b) you can insta kill things easier or at all….that’s right, nail that hive tyrant and then smack him with a vindicator….suck it.

    Let’s not undercut the penalty to S. most Nurgle stuff is T5. Most models are S4 or S3. Yeah, you put that on a unit engaged with a great unclean one and they may not be able to hurt it if they only had S3 to start. Put it on marines and they need 6s to wound almost every Nurgle model, 5s to wound a damn cultist! The possibilities are HUGE for the penalty for strength. Penalty for attack also is nice.

    Either way, Lukas hit the nail on the head discussing psykers in the new CSM CODEX. They are unit complimenting powers for the most part and just are truly made to be gross in proper combos.

    Take the slaanesh one where you can buff the stats of a friendly unit. Then put it on a unit of 6 fiends. Yep, picture S6 or 6 attacks base on a fiend. That’s 42 S5 rending or 36 S6 rending from a 180 point unit. Yeah, you like your land raider….sorry about that. Better yet, slap it on daemonettes. Ouch.

    Either way, the new powers can be really nasty in combos.

  • Am I missing something (possible, since I don’t have the CSM book), but the rules for Maledictions explicitly state that they can’t reduce a stat below 0. Does that nullify your combo?

    • I believe you are correct. Per BRB a Malediction cannot reduce a stat below 1 unless specified elsewhere. The Gift of Contagion does not specifically override this, and is thus subject to the same restriction. Although the Psychic heavy Nurgle list can severely weaken a unit it does not grant the ability to remove the unit entirely.
      Nice utility, but not overpowered.

    • Lukas

      Are we sure about this? I thought maledictions only said they don’t stack with each other unless otherwise stated?
      Saaaaad Panda :(

  • Zer0DarkFire

    Remember that a Malediction power cannot ever lower a stat to 0. This is under the entry for Malediction psych powers in the general rulebook.

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