Thor’s Workbench & WH40K 8th Thoughts

I’ve been getting some hobby work done since Warhammer 40K 8th dropped. I have a lot of unfinished projects (who doesn’t?) that I’m finally getting around to. It’s mostly been some repair work, like my Keeper of Secrets, and some rebasing as well.

Workbench

I’m still trying to figure out 8th, so I haven’t really committed to anything new as I have no idea what my plan is just yet. However, I have gotten back to my Maulerfiend/Forgefiend that I started building over a year ago. I did some bare minimal building on it in 7th, so it was at least useable, but it was incomplete.

Nothing special here other than the fact it’s completely magnetized to be used as a Maulerfiend or Forgefiend, and with all options available to either.

The other thing I’m doing is reworking the base on my first Fiend build. The magnets I had used in the base were a bit too weak. I often had issues keeping the model on there, so I strengthened those.

I also glued the feed to the legs. They were magnetized, as at the time I thought I’d have to swap them around as I went from Maulerfiend to Forgefiend. I learned that the feet work in either configuration, so I never had to swap them. So, I glued them to the legs because it needed it for support. Otherwise those ankles were a weak point and often caused issues.

Lastly, as you’ll see, I’m rebasing the Fiend. The basing technique on there was the 3rd version of my snow technique, close but not a match to the last version, the 4th.

Maulerfiend Snow Base

8th Edition Thoughts

I’ve now played 7 games of WH40K 8th. Right now I’m struggling with it. I’m really enjoying the game, and I love the freedom of it now. I know the rules, I know how the game has changed, and I’ve made changes to how I build lists and play. Yet, I’m always left feeling like I’m playing catch up with everyone else.

While I’m trying out units, deciding what’s going to work, how I want to play 8th, it’s like others have already figured it out. So, in those 7 games I have only won 1 of them.

I’m not throwing a pity party here though. There’s some fundamental changes in 8th edition, and while I see them, I have yet to embrace them. Take HQs for example. In previous editions you could have a beatstick HQ. That HQ would run with a tough unit to protect him, get delivered, and destroy things. I’m not talking deathstars either.

In my experience so far, that is a tough proposition. Your average infantry HQ choice is running around with 4-6 wounds. Hell, a single lascannon shot could remove that model from the board, or a decent melee weapon in close combat (power fists, thunder hammers, etc). While that was always possible before, it’s far more common than it ever was, in my opinion at least.

With that is just the far more destructive nature of 8th edition. Every game I’ve played has left both players with few models left, if any. After just two turns the casualties on both sides looks like a 7th game by turn #5.

The nature of the game is just different. Having HQs that offer you re-rolls has become the obvious choice. Why have a beatstick leader who can only, if lucky, destroy a single unit a turn when you could have that HQ buffing nearby units to remove 2-3 enemy units a turn instead? There’s exceptions of course, like Magnus is very capable, but I’m talking standard infantry HQs.

The units you field are going to die. The units you choose need to be able to get where they are needed and do some damage first. I realize that seems obvious, but you could take units in 7th whose job was to sit on an objective, or tarpit the enemy. Those sorts of jobs are pretty much gone in 8th.

You can’t take 10 Cultists to sit in the backfield the entire game, going to ground as needed, and scoring an objective. Lose a few of those Cultists and morale is going to destroy them entirely. You can’t tarpit units in close combat now, so you need to be able to inflict such damage on the charge that you remove the unit.

Again, these are not complaints, but more me thinking out loud to hopefully get myself on the right track with 8th edition. Historically I’m a slow adapter. It’s like I see the changes, yet I resist them even though I may like them; it’s odd.

Anyone else out there struggling a bit with adapting to 8th?

  • Kenneth Raymond

    While I have yet to play a game of 8th Edition (due to a campaign and thus have been focusing on assembling and painting scenery and objective markers.)
    I have been dabbling with building sample lists and trying to fathom how my armies will now work. [One my Mechanicum is simply sidelined by this change. Thanks to HH staying with 7th]
    Oddly the least changed (despite going from HH to 40k SM/CSM) is my 30k Alpha legion force. My HQ’s generally buffed my troops (Cognis signum +1 Bs) and acted as melee deterrents. The largest changes have been inflicted on the Imperial guard. [I own a lot of FW IG vehicles so I will be instantly villiansed when I come to use them. Minotaur, macharius Vulcan, vulture gunship, stygies vanquishers, leman russ conquerers, annihilators, a destroyer tank hunter, an autocannon chimera, a praetor armoured assault missile launcher and an artemia hellhound are the main offenders here, even if they have gone from slightly overcosted to viable alternatives I’ll still be hated for using them.]

    • My limited experience with FW models so far in 8th has been much as you said, not looked upon fondly. I’m expecting to see a lot of “no FW” at bigger tournaments.

  • I can understand you struggling to get a win with Chaos Space Marines Thor. At the moment I’m of the firm opinion that Chaos Marines are the weakest single army available at the moment. Unless you spam Daemon Princes, add Daemons or use Forge World, I think we will be facing an uphill battle until our Codex is released.
    I’m hoping that GW add some sort of move and fire rule to our Daemon Engines, because at the moment the Forge Fiend and Defiler is next to useless if they move hitting on a 5+ (they aren’t all that if they stay still either). Obliterators are dreadful and Chaos Marines really struggle to put out any meaningful shooting compared to most other armies.
    Overall I think 8th is a good game but a terrible tournament game and unfortunately my favourite army is badly in need of a Codex.
    Fingers crossed that GW throw us a bone.

    • Chaos Marines really don’t have a lot going for them. I tried a mostly Daemon list last week, and while I didn’t win, the list has a lot more flavor to it. As I said the other week, CSM are just so bland right now, and that does in fact translate to the table as well.

      At first I was happy with the Defiler. Lots of guns, the guns are powerful, and then I played a game. OK, so I move the Defiler up here and shoot…shit, that’s -1 to hit. Fuck me!

      Yeah, something in that regard would be great, but then again everyone else is in the same boat. So, I doubt we’ll see a fix there, but what I’d love to see is daemonic vehicle marks. If it has the Daemon keyword then let it pick a god and get a bonus. I’ve wanted that forever, and maybe GW will deliver…

      • Oh don’t get me wrong, I think there’s very little chance of GW solving any of the problems that Chaos Marines have, I’m just trying to be optimistic and give them the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, I think the Chaos Marine Dex will be a total clusterf*ck because they haven’t got a bloody clue about what they keep doing wrong with the army.
        Maybe one day one of the GW designers will actually play Chaos and we will have a champion similar to Pete Haines, but to quote Aragorn “It is not this day!”

        • We have this one chance with 8th edition. Chaos has once again been brought forward as the antagonist, so it’s the one chance to shine if GW does it right. However, I’m inclined to agree with you that they’ll screw it all up because when it comes to Chaos, they are clueless on how to write a codex. Chaos gets treated as spikey Marines instead of something unto itself as it should be.

          • I have been watching a lot of BatReps on YouTube and you guys maybe surprised to learn Chaos can be good in this edition. However its units that didnt see much play in 7th that are really good in 8th. KHORNE beserkers are a unit that fight twice in the Fight phase. Thats really good. Raptors are pretty hard hitting and I heard Chaos troops can take a heavy at 5 models instead of 10. Also add Abaddon and landraider near him or havocs and you can ruin units across you. Hope that helps!

            • Berzerkers are great. I’ve used them in a few games now, and while they may not roll over everything, they do an amazing job tying up units.

              Raptors were pretty mediocre for me. They still lack any real punch, but I like the unit in general.

              Abaddon is what I’ll be testing next. He has some great buffs, and can handle himself in combat. I feel like he’s better now than he has been.

              • Kenneth Raymond

                Raptors and Warp talons used to be more useful with MoK. (Rage for 4 attacks a model on the charge).
                Now with Charge bonus’ and the MoK gone they look far worse now. (Why do warp talons still have 1 base attack damnit. they sucked primarily due to this in 6th and 7th Ed why they did not boost them to 2 attacks a piece [thus giving them 3 attacks each in 8th due to the lighting claws.])
                Losing all of the marks and their affects really hurts chaos. (More so than losing chapter tactics has done for Space marines)

                • I’ve noticed in 8th that the number of attacks for a lot of stuff got seriously reduced. The base attacks got lowered, then with no charge bonus, two CCW bonus, or Chaos Mark bonus, things are very plain and blah.

                  • Kenneth Raymond

                    Having played a few small games (500pts) with a friend over the weekend we found that bloodletters still suck as do warp talons. (both suffer from the 1 attack syndrome. BL get 2 on the turn they charge while warp talons do get 2 due to the pair of lightning claws.) and are still poor choices. [+1 A base would have really helped.]
                    There is still no reason to choose bloodletters over daemonettes,(daemonettes have 2 attacks base (3) if you have 20+ in the unit. BL get +1 to hit with the same number… and still have rending as well as always strikes first for CC) and both units are 90pts…
                    And warp talons retain the title of the best looking CSM infantry unit which serve no real purpose.

                    • In general, attacks have gone down across the board, so CSM aren’t the only one suffering from that. That being said, for the cost of Warp Talons they need to offer more than they do. It’s too bad, as you said, it’s a great looking unit.

                      Yeah, Bloodletters didn’t get any better, and I feel that Daemonettes did.

                    • Kenneth Raymond

                      True,
                      Other armies are not affected as much by the attacks dropping as they normally have some kind of shooting advantage. CSM have very little to fill in the void here. Considering forgefiends and defilers are being unfairly punished for having heavy weapons and 4+ to hit [5+ if they move], the oblitorator nerf and the general lack of options CSM have [Beyond massive points drops or complete unit sheet rewrites] the army is lacking before any codexes come out. [I’m hoping for actual ‘free’ Legion rules a la chapter tactics that will aid in this regard. Warp talons would benefit greatly from the Khorne berserkers double fight phase for instance, bringing them back up to 4 attacks a model per combat.]
                      Oddly autocannon havocs performed very well in our test games wiping out a terminator squad in single volley before being whirlwind’d off the table. D2 per wound helped massively when the termies have a -1 sv modifier. {I now feel the need to build another squad of them and leave my oblitorators in their storage box.)

                    • Agreed. I keep working on lists, looking for fire support, and coming up empty. The Predator and Land Raider are great, and Havocs have a place now. Beyond that though, CSM is seriously lacking.

                      So, yeah, here’s hoping the codex helps.

                    • Kenneth Raymond

                      I’m seriously thinking of starting an iron warrior army with added renegades and heretics and building the army around that FOC with a large amount of heavy support slots before loading as many basilisks/heavy bolters/autocannons into the list before swarming the table with cheap expendable bodies to bubble wrap them. And adding as many warpsmiths and dark machnicus HQ’s as possible. {with maulerfiends and or helbrutes to act as counter assault units. I blame reading storm of Iron again for this as that book always make me want to start a IW army… [and you can now get plastic iron armour marines…Must resist urge]}

  • ming2005

    You have had time for 7 games? I think I’m at 4. Loss to Kastellan Spam, Loss to Ork Horde I, Win vs Chaos Marines, Loss to Ork Horde II. I’ve only played the non-maelstrom missions, and only at 80 Power. My understanding of the rules ever improves.

    I started to adjust my collection to new unit restrictions and additions…building and painting stuff…and then the FAQ/errata came out.

    8 days till I’m in a tournament…1500 points. I have no clue yet what to do…I think my biggest issue is that any list building at the moment will be by spreadsheet or pencil…I hate that part…overall I’ll have to create a well-rounded list…have no idea how crazy the different other lists will be at this point…gotta be ready for everything from hordes to 4-model lists.

    • I played two games of 8th before it was officially released using the leaked PDFs of the rules.

      List building isn’t easy. It’s a new game, so a new meta has yet to emerge, thus making preparation difficult. At least, I haven’t had an easy time of it, and a balanced list is easier said than done I find.

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