Battle Review: Chaos vs Daemons

Chaos MarinesI opted for a different approach with my Chaos list this time out. I have been struggling with my Chaos Marines lately, for various reasons, and something had to change. Long story short, I needed to play a list I enjoyed. I don’t often make balanced lists, they bore me, and the lists I’ve been playing lately have been going in the right direction (for me), but just not cutting it.

Here’s the list I decided to bring along. Yes, that’s dual Princes and yes, the internet’s consensus is they aren’t worth it. I also thought so but had not done a dual Prince list yet and I’m not one to take everyone’s opinion as fact. The thing is that I really like Princes. I enjoy the models, I like the fluff and I do like their stat-line but they are pricey. Wanting to run a list I enjoyed meant trying out two Princes. It’s a list I always enjoyed in 5th and the old Chaos codex so it was time to see what it would do now.

My opponent had his Daemons with Chaos Marines allies. I won’t run through the entire list but the big features were Fateweaver, 3 Soulgrinders, 1 Heldrake and 1 Blight Drone. It was a pretty nasty list all told.

We played Safeguard with him having first turn. He setup his Skyshield left of center with his Cultists on it. Having learned the hard way many times, I setup my army in two halves. Fateweaver handing out re-rolls can be a bitch so the halves of my army force him to split up and one half loses the re-rolls. I then stole the initiative.

I’ll be blunt, this game was a huge slug-fest. I spent the first two turns positioning myself to get my Princes and Spawn into the Daemons’ line. One Prince went down before doing anything but between two Princes and a Heldrake, there was a ton of firepower directed at them which allowed me to maneuver the rest of my force. My second Prince ultimately did little in the way of damage, killing two Plague Bearers before losing his last wound to them.

What those Princes did allow for was me to get my Spawn into combat unharmed. My Spawn were a HUGE MVP this match. They took out a Plague Bearer squad, got charged by Flamers and dropped them, went on to charge Fateweaver and kill him and then lastly charge and destroy a Blight Drone.

The destruction was mutual though. By the end of the game I had 1 Heldrake, 1 Defiler and 2 Spawn left while he had 1 Soulgrinder, 1 Heldrake and 2 Horrors. As for the mission, we drew on primary, he took secondary and tertiary giving him the win. It was one of those games where if it ended on turn #5 I’d have won, #6 I’d have won but that 7th turn let me grab the win. Definitely a great game.

I was pleased with my list. As I said, the Princes didn’t do much for killing but between them and a Heldrake that gave me three flyers for my opponent to worry about. Fortunately for him he had flyers of his own but even still it was not an easy task for him to get those Princes down. Backing that up with the Defiler (first time living through a whole game!), and the Forgefiend worked out well also. That’s a fair amount of big threats and the idea of the list is to make target priority tough.

I’ll continue messing with this list of dual Princes. It’s not something I’ll always run, as I’m sure people will grow tired of facing 3 flyers, but I’m glad it’s still a viable list, at least to me.

  • JustHippie

    That was an awesome game, Thanks. I’d try swapping the Forgefiend for a Maulerfiend since the Princes are the BIG threats flying around.

    • It’s a thought. I want to mess around with the Forgefiend some more though and get a better feel for it.

      • A Maulerfiend might jump to the top of target priority because it’s about as fast as a winged Prince but easier to hit/kill. The Mauler is quite a bit cheaper though, enough to open some different options elsewhere.

        • Agreed. I think a Mauler fits right in the list, no question about it. The 50pts I’d save would buy 12 more Cultists, or if I were being bold, make both Princes a mastery level 1 psyker.

          • JustHippie

            Try Havocs,bikes and Maulerfiend with the 2 princes. I know you have run those units before but without the Prince threats bearing down.

            An Aegis with Quad gun would make those cultists much more of an asset and harder to kill with 2+ when going to ground.

            • Where do you think I’ll get the points for the addition of Bikers and Havocs? Dropping a Forgefiend to Maulerfiend only frees up 50pts :P I’d need to completely revise the list. I’m sure I’ll work in Bikers in other lists with two Princes, just not this particular one.

              I was thinking of tossing those 50pts if I snag a Maulerfiend for an ADL (no gun).

              • JustHippie

                Dropping the Defiler as well like you were running. Drop one unit of cultists while you’re at it and add that quad gun ADl for Havocs and cultists.

                • Eh, it’s not that easy. Dropping a Cultist unit puts me at 3 scoring units, one of which is super easy to destroy, and at 1,750 that’s not ideal. Plus, the points aren’t quite there even with removing a Defiler, not to do everything you mentioned. I’m sure I could make it work but the ‘this’ list wasn’t built for it. That’s why I was saying I’d need to write another list, one with the intent of getting those units in it instead of trying to stuff them into a list they weren’t meant for.

  • I found myself humming Spin Doctors tunes while I read this article. Two thoughts:

    1) Why would you splitting your force up mean that he would have to split his force up? Seems like failed logic to me. I mean, eventually, he’d want to split his force up anyway to capture all of those objectives, but that wouldn’t be necessary until the end, no?

    2) Do your 10 man cultist units wind up doing anything in the games you play with them, or do you just hunker them down behind cover to hold objectives? To me, they seem to require large squads for them to do anything in the game (and they’re so cheap, so why not).

    • He doesn’t have to split up his force if he doesn’t want to, and in this game he didn’t. Each half of my force was intended to be able to support the other half. So, if he landed on one half I could support it from the other side. While he’s chewing on one side I’m hitting him from the other. Without tying down both sides of my force he would be getting hit and unable to retaliate. If he splits up, well then Fateweaver can only support one side.

      It’s not a strategy that works 100% of the time, I mean what strategy does? However, it’s one I’ve had the most success with.

      That was my first time running 10-man Cultists squads and they did nothing. I originally had them as a 28-man squad but opted to try breaking them down, and giving one autoguns. The idea being they aren’t fearless and if you get into them with a mediocre assault unit then they’re toast. You beat them by a few in combat and then run down the rest. By breaking into two squads it’s two different targets (duh!), and each requires attention of its own to deal with.

      The plan, yeah, hang out back and grab objectives or to bubble wrap CSM who are holding objectives. Again, it’s an experiment.

      • I’d considered the fact that they weren’t fearless when I was posting, so there is a chance that you’re wasting 10-20 models if you buy them in a big block–but they’re so cheap, it seems like it’s a hard deal to pass up. Still, I don’t always run large squads of gaunts (And they most often are fearless), so I guess large blocks aren’t necessarily autoincludes.

        Thanks for the follow-up.

      • Khorne Inquisitor

        Have you stopped using your dark apostle to give everything within 6 a ld 10.

        Looks like your game went really well, albeit you lost, but well still. I agree that dropped the forge for a mauler would be awesome and then I like your idea of making the daemon princes psykers. Now that you can’t stop blessings, it seems a not brainer to not get some biomancy buffs for those bubbas. Iron arm, endurance, warp speed, and life leach would all be extremely useful for those guys, so its a safe bet. That would require you to make a single ML 2 so you could get 1 Nurgle power as well. However, eve two Nurgle powers, one on each, could be ugly as weapon virus in particular would benefit them.

        • I can’t very well run an Apostle with two Princes. Remember, mine are HQs, not heavy.

          Maybe at 2K I’d make the Princes psykers. At 1,750 it just pushes them to a point limit that’s hefty and likely wouldn’t see a worthwhile return.

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