Traitor’s Hate Hits the Field – Disciples of Twilight vs Blood Ravens

November we have our big annual 40K tournament, the Standish Standoff. I figured I’d start working towards that with my lists, and I also wanted to try out some new stuff in Traitor’s Hate. The list I used is pretty tame, but I was aiming for a theme.

The formation I was trying out was the Helforge Warpack: 1 Warpsmith, 3-5 of Helbrute, Maulerfiend, Forgefiend, and Defiler in any combination. The benefits are getting to Daemonforge twice a game, and one vehicle becomes the Alpha and gains a 4+ invulnerable. If the Alpha die then the rest get rage.

It’s a pretty mild formation, but it’s easy to work into a list.

I also wanted to play with the new psychic powers, so I had my Sorcerer roll on the Heretech discipline. That discipline is all for vehicles, and I was hoping to get the one to restore a hull point, fix a weapon, or immobilized result. It’s not a discipline most would look at as great, but it fits the theme.

Here’s my list.

Disciples of Twilight (Chaos Space Marines) – 1,750


  • Maelstrom – Sorcerer: Psyker (Mastery Level 3), Combi-bolter, Force Weapon, Terminator Armor, Spell Familiar


  • Redemption – Chaos Space Marines (8): Veterans of the Long War, Meltagun x 1
    • Champion: Melta Bombs
    • Rhino
  • Vengeance – Chaos Space Marines (5): Veterans of the Long War, Plasma Gun x 1
    • Champion: Melta Bombs
    • Rhino

Heavy Support

  • Devestation – Obliterators (3): Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War

Lord of War

  • Chaos Knight Paladin: Ion Shield, Heavy Stubber x 2, Rapid-fire Battle Cannon, Foe-reaper Chainsword, Dirge Caster, Daemon Knight of Tzeentch

Helforged Warpack Formation

  • Grimtech – Warpsmith: Mechatendrils, Bolt Pistol, Power Axe, Mark of Nurgle, Aura of Dark Glory, Blight Grenades, Melta Bombs
  • Deathcry – Helbrute: Twin-linked Lascannon, Power Fist
  • Maulerfiend: Lasher Tendrils
  • Ragefist – Defiler: Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon, Twin-linked Heavy Flamer, Power Fists x 2, Dirge Caster

The Game

I played Steve and his Raven Guard (Blood Angels). We rolled Cloak and Shadows (hidden cards), and Steve set up first. I failed to seize the initiative.

Turn #1


Steve advanced up a bit, mostly on my left. He didn’t have much shooting, as I hid most of what I could. The Whirlwind (some variant with anti-vehicle rounds), fired on my Helbrute and got a penetrating hit. My Helbrute shrugged it off with his 4+ invulnerable; I made him the alpha.

Despite a lack-luster shooting phase, Steve got the 4 objectives he had cards for. He had the Warlord Trait to pull an extra turn #1.

Points: 4-0, Steve’s lead.


My middle and right units moved up.

Maelstrom (Sorcerer), cast the power on my Defiler that gives him Machine Spirit. The Defiler then shot his Battle Cannon at the Furioso Dreadnought in front of them, got a pen, but it was saved. The Reaper Autocannon went at the fancy Whirlwind, but got nothing. The Knight also fired his Battle Cannon at the Whirlwind and stripped off the missile launcher weapon – whatever it’s called. The Obliterators fired on a Razorback and stripped it’s Lascannon off.

In the assault phase, my Defiler made an 11″ charge into the Dreadnought in front of him. The Dreadnought put 2 hull points on Ragefist (Defiler), and immobilized him. Ragefist did 1 hull point back, also immobilizing the Dreadnought. My Knight had failed his charge at a Razorback.

I know I had a bad hand this turn for cards, and I don’t think I scored anything.

Points: 4-0, Steve’s lead.

Turn #2


Steve’s Land Speeder came in from reserves.

Between the Speeder, and some Razorbacks, my left Rhino went down. Some Tactical Marines jumped out of their ride and put two melta shots into my Knight, doing 3 hull points.

Dante and his Command Squad charged my Maulerfiend, and Dante smoked it. The Furioso finished off my Defiler before it could swing.

Steve got First Blood, and I believe another point.

Points: 6-0, Steve’s lead.

Steve - Turn #2


The Knight moved towards Dante and crew. The Warpsmith jumped out to fix the Knight, and he did, restoring a hull point. Obliterators with the Sorcerer continued up the right flank.

Grimtech Fixing the Knight

Maelstrom cast Flayerstorm (think that’s it), on a Whirlwind in front of them. He got it off, and it does D3 hull points to the vehicle. I got 2 hull points on the Whirlwind to finish it off.


In shooting I unloaded most everything into Dante’s squad, and killed off a few.

The Knight charged into Dante’s squad and killed off all Dante and a few Marines, leaving the Chaplain and a Marine. I lost a hull point to a Melta Bomb.

I scored a few points this turn, as I recall.

Points: 6-3, Steve’s lead.

Turn #3


The Baal Predator showed up from reserves and flamed down 3 Marines with Grimtech (Warpsmith). I don’t recall shooting otherwise doing much.

Steve charged in 4 Tactical Marines with the Knight. My Knight finished off the last 2 models from Dante’s squad, but the new Marines stuck around.

Points: 6-2, Steve’s lead.


I pretty much held my position, having drawn some cards for objectives where I was.

I seem to recall my Sorcerer doing the D3 hull points power again on a Razorback, finishing it off. The Obliterators took a shot on the Land Speeder and immobilized it.

Deathcry (Helbrute), made an 11″ charge into a Razorback and smashed it. My Knight killed off the remaining Marines in combat.

I think I scored 2pts.

Points: 6-5, Steve’s lead.

Turn #4


The Death Company Dreadnought, who had been slogging up the left side of the field, finally got in range of my Knight. The Dreadnought charged in, thew 7 attacks (I believe), landed 6, and got 5 results. My Knight saved 4 of the 5 results, and the one that got through did a hull point. In return my Knight made short work of the Dreadnought.

Steve - Turn #4

Some Tactical Marines fired on the rear of Deathcry and shook him.

The game is getting fuzzy, but think that was all of note.

Points: 6-5, Steve’s lead.


My Knight moved over and smashed the Baal Predator. Most everything else stayed put again, thinning down some Marines.

I did score a point though.

Points: 6-6.

The Rest of the Game

The game went to turn #7. Steve’s mobility was gone, so I was running around snagging the points I could for objectives, and taking shots where possible. When the game concluded, Steve only had the immobilized Furioso remaining.

The final score was something like 7-11, victory to me.

Thor - Turn #5


That is the first time in a VERY long time that I beat Steve. Steve has a knack for clearing his hand during games, like the first turn with all 4 cards. His continued slow creep in points, combined with my bad hands, had me worried. However, my Knight did his job well. Between its shooting, and close combats, the scariest threats were removed.

Maelstrom (Sorcerer), did pretty damn well also. That Flayerstorm power is pretty damn impressive. Being able to immediately remove D3 hull points is amazing. Maelstrom outright removed 2 tanks with that power, and contributed to a third.

The Helforged Warpack formation was neat, but not game changing. That 4+ invulernable came in handy on Deathcry for sure. However, I never had the chance to utilize Daemonforge once, let alone twice. By the time Deathcry went down, nothing remained to make use of Rage. I’ll probably use the formation again at some point, but most likely if I need to shoe in some more walkers if needed, not so much for the benefits. I don’t see myself building around this formation at all.

I have said this before, but I will say it again, making a Knight a Daemon is worth it every single game. That 5++ saved him from that Death Company Dreadnought big time. Without that invulnerable, the Knight would have been smoked. The Tzeentch upgrade is 65pts, but it’s 65pts that’s always well spent. Regardless of the god you like, take it as a Daemon Knight. You will not regret it.

A great game, and I need to figure out what to try out next from Traitor’s Hate.



  • jack shrapnel

    Great report! looked like you were in some serious trouble those first couple turns, but that knight (which looks badass by the way) really did work. I’m not so sure on that warpack formation, the benefits seem a little “meh” but if you’re taking those models anyways it seems okay. Nice job on the win!

    • My games definitely tend to be a slow burn. Rarely do I ever start off with a lead and fight to hold it. I’m always playing catch-up. Kind of the nature of such a small list I imagine.

      Yeah, definitely not a formation you’re going to go out of you way to use. Few are that way, and the ones that are have pretty hefty investments to obtain.

    • The Warpack is basically what you take if you want to run those Units in the Decurion. Not a whole lot of reason for it otherwise.

  • Berman

    So only thing I noticed I wanted to point out. The special rule lets you use Daemon forge every turn. You can use it a second and/or subsequent time. Meaning as long as the war smith is alive you can just keep on keeping on with daemon forge.

    Master of Mechanical Warpcraft:Whilst their Warpsmith is alive and on the battlefield, Helforged Warpack models that have already used their Daemonforge special rule during the game can choose to do so for a second and/or subsequent time.”

    Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Black Crusade: Traitor’s Hate.” Games Workshop Ltd

    • Second and/or subsequent time is not every turn, however. If that were the case then it would state “May be used every turn.” Instead, it’s saying it can be used a 2nd time in the game, instead of just once, and that second use can be used in the following phase. So, use it for shooting then you can also use it in close combat.

    • I also read it that you can use the Darmonforge rule every turn/phase as long as the Warpsmith is alive.

      • I just don’t see it based on the wording. The fact it says a “second” time is indicative of there being a limit to how many times it can be used. Otherwise, why not just say, “As long as the Warpsmith is alive you can Daemonforge every turn”?

        The subsequent time is to indicate each phase: shooting & assault. Normally we pick what phase we use it in, so subsequent (meaning: coming after something in time; following), means you can use it in shooting and subsequently also in close combat.

        I don’t see this saying it’s used every turn at all. Not even close.

        • We obviously read it completely differently. Normally I tend to go with the more restrictive interpretation of the rules (in this case two times and no more). In this case I believe that the correct reading is two or more times. I don’t see how subsequent times refers to which phase. They could have just written something like – Daemonforge rule can be used twice per game instead just once per game. But instead of doing that they add this and/or subsequent time bit.

          • I also see it as allowing continued use of Daemonforge as long as the Warpsmith is alive. Not that it’s a particularly big deal. I rarely use it anyhow.

          • But where does the two times “or more” part come from?

            We have “second and/or subsequent time.” A second time means just that, you can do it a second time. Not a third, fourth or fifth time. Second, so twice.

            Subsequent comes into play, as I said, because normally Daemonforge allows you once per-game to use it, and it is used in a particular phase: shooting or assault. So, normally you say in the shooting phase you are using Daemonforge. You get your benefits in the shooting phase, but it goes away and is not used in the assault phase.

            With that in mind, subsequent indicates that it can be used twice in the same turn, in a subsequent phase, a phase that follows. So, in shooting and assault since the assault phase is subsequent to the shooting phase.

            The reason this is stated is because it overrides the standard use of the rule, once per-game in a single phase. So, to rule out questions regarding its use, they have made a statement to make it clear that you can use it in two subsequent phases.

            Furthermore, this is how “second and/or subsequent time.” ties it together. You can use it a second time, so twice in a game. In addition, that second use can be done in subsequent phases: shooting and assault. Thus, we have “second and/or subsequent time.”

            Sorry. Some times I like to argue/debate/discuss rules ;)

            • Cheers! I love a good rules argument from time to time as well. I think it all comes down to how you understand the phrase subsequent time. I don’t see the connection to the different phases in which you can activate the ability. The connection cannot be found in the text written.

              Subsequent means occurring, happening or following something else. In this context I feel that the only something else referred to here is the actual activation of the Daemonforge rule. You can activate it a first, second and/or subsequent time.

              • From the codex:

                “Once per game, at the start of any Shooting or Assault phase, the Daemonforge may be activated. For the rest of the phase, the model may re-roll all failed To Wound rolls and all failed armour penetration rolls.”

                So, normally it’s shooting or assault phase. By adding in a second and/or subsequent time, they are letting you use it in both phases; if you wanted to anyway. You could use it turn #1 and later turn #4, or use it turn #1 shooting and assault phase, IE: a second and/or subsequent time ;)

                • I hear what you’re saying but I just don’t see the reference to phase as clearly as you do. To subsequent refers to the number of times you can activate the ability. We should ask GW.

                  • Yeah, I asked some other Chaos players and they agree with you and Westrider. I just asked on the 40K FB page. Maybe they’ll work it into an FAQ.

                    I’m all for every turn, I just want it to be clear. Either way, it’s not really worded very well.

                    • No, razor sharp wording it is not. Let’s hope they answer the question.

  • Lovely write up chief, cheers for doing it up. Well done for clawing back the game. I am really tempted to try out those new powers. I heard they were just mirrors of the Imperial ones though?

    • After that first turn where Steve cleared his hand, and I didn’t get a point, I thought that was it. You never know with Maelstrom though.

      Yeah, the powers are the exact same powers. It’s a cop-out if you ask me, but at the same time CSM can’t say their powers are worse than SM…

      • And honestly, CSM need them more than SM did.

        • Oh, no argument there. I just wish they tweaked them a little so they weren’t carbon copies.

      • Yeah I played with a few of those cards but didn’t keep a huge eye on them. I was busy trying to keep up with my rules :p

        I shall have to leave future battle reports to the experts.

        I will lool into the cards though.

        • There’s a lot to remember, especially your first game in how many years? Never mind the first game of this edition, to say the least.

          • In 15 years. I am a bad wargamer. Still I enjoyed getting back into it. Just need to run through lists and have people point out what to remember…

            • Write yourself a checklist next time and look at it every turn.

  • I thought he had you there but great work digging your heels in and fighting until the end.

    I always tend to forget to use Daemonforged.

    • I remember to use Daemonforge for shooting, but always forget about close combat. It’s such a good rule that you would think we’d remember…

      • I never bother, because when I do use it, I miss with all my swings, so re-rolls on the Wound/Pen rolls don’t matter :P

        • I do find it more useful for shooting than close combat.

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